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Talk:Elmo's World Format
EW format :this conversation started at User talk:Aleal Hey, do you remember where it was that we were talking about a format for the Elmo's World episodes? I know someone had done one, but I forget where the conversation was. The layout looks pretty good at Elmo's World: Weather, but I wanted to make sure we had or hadn't decided on anything. -- Scott (talk) 21:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC) :It was Melissa (currently on Wiki vacation) who had done the most work on those pages. I'd noodled with a format, and she added some, over in the sandbox, but I went ahead and created a page proper for it: Elmo's World Format. It's in the sandbox category right now, but if you approve or make any changes, it can probably go under Muppet Wiki. 21:33, 6 June 2006 (UTC) ::Oh, awesome! Later tonight or tomorrow I'll be going through some episodes. Now I know where to look. Thanks! -- Scott (talk) 21:40, 6 June 2006 (UTC) :::Sorry to break in, but how is that format supposed to be used? Is it supposed to look just like that, but with descriptions of the questions asked? We've been wrestling with this about the Muppet Show episode pages -- I don't really like having episode guides that look like lists, with lots of unnecessary bolding and bullets. If the episode description has to look like a list, is it possible to make it into a table instead? -- Danny (talk) 21:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC) ::::It doesn't *have* to look like that, though so far it does. If you can figure out how to use a table instead, go for it. It might be worth bringing up for a broader discussion on current events, though, since Jog's been going through The Animal Show episodes using a list format. Andrew Leal (talk) 21:50, 6 June 2006 (UTC) :::::Elmo's World has a very specific structure which is followed in every single episode. I think a list is justified. -- Scott (talk) 21:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC) ::::::I just added a table to Elmo's World Format, using a made-up Hair episode as an example. I agree with you, I think a list is justifed -- I just want it to be in a more readable format. We started using the bullets/bolding format early on, because we didn't know what else to do. Overall, in the last six months, I think we've found that infoboxes and tables are better than bulleted lists. ::::::I pared down the list of segments a little, to just include the segements that vary from episode to episode. That's just an example, though, so if you want to put some of the repeated segments back in, that's cool. I just think a table is better than the bullets. -- Danny (talk) 22:05, 6 June 2006 (UTC) ::::::::Hey, whatever works. It's just that I utterly dislike Elmo's World: Balls, which is dryer and even less informative to my mind than a bulleted list. The table has potential, though. Andrew Leal (talk) 22:07, 6 June 2006 (UTC) :::::::::Yeah, I like the table better than that description. Elmo's World doesn't really have a "story" to speak of, so pretending that it has one is confusing. Balls indeed. -- Danny (talk) 22:10, 6 June 2006 (UTC) ::::::::::You've mentioned before that lists are hard to read, but I disagree 100%. I think it's way easier to look at a list to find what you're looking for. If I came to an article and saw a big paragraph to read, I'd skip it and go somewhere else. Or, if I really had to, I'd skim the paragraph. But I'd think it was a real pain. ::::::::::Anyway, we do agree about a list for EW, so yay for us. BTW, there is a Hair episode of EW. -- Scott (talk) 22:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC) :::::::::::No, what I object to is that particular format for a list, with the bullets and no space between the items. When I look at that, all I can see is a row of bullets. -- Danny (talk) 23:12, 6 June 2006 (UTC) :This conversation is falling off the side, probably a good sign it should be moved to current events. Anyway, I added spaces to Elmo's World: Birthdays and the table to Elmo's World: Weather, for comparison purposes. I kept all the extra segments, and we can decide later which can go (since they're already there, I don't mind, and I actually kind of like the idea of having careful scholarly documentation of every time Elmo asks a baby). The table is nice, actually, but right now, it poses a problem in conjunction with the episode image and the episode template, so it crowds the table down. As long as we're talking about things that are unreadable, my own peeve is whenever a block of information gets pushed down leaving a huge space between the header and the rest. I think there may be a way around this (maybe incorporating the image into the table), but right now, the page looks too cluttered to me. Andrew Leal (talk) 23:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC) ::Personally, the bulleted list looks better to me. But if the tables are preferred by the majority, I can see about making the table look better. -- Scott (talk) 23:55, 6 June 2006 (UTC) :::Haven't had time to experiment with the table much, but I just did a minor tweak to Elmo's World: Sky. I think just adding the colon so as to space the list helps, or possibly a dividing line at a halfway mark as used on the Muppet relatives page. Andrew Leal (talk) 19:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC) ::::I still like the table a lot better. Can we use that? -- Danny (talk) 19:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC) :::::I just tried to post that Andrew's list is much better, but you were editing the page and it wouldn't let me save. The table doesn't work for this type of list. -- Scott (talk) 19:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC). ::::::Danny, have you looked at Elmo's World: Weather? The table is pushed down beneath the image and episode box, leaving a big open space instead of the box and image sharing with the text, and generally it looks cramped. If you can find a way around that, feel free. Andrew Leal (talk) 19:58, 15 June 2006 (UTC) :::::::Okay. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. -- Danny (talk) 21:15, 15 June 2006 (UTC)